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A history/rant involving myself and computers
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From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 1:53:22 AM | Options | + | #001
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As you might have known, I was born into a world of computing. My parents had a Commodore Amiga which I first used when I was 1 year old. I was probably typing before I could write. Shortly after that they bought me these kiddie games for it (silly bears fun wif numberz!!11) and since then I was hooked on playing computer games. Goddamnit, I wanted a NES soooo bad but no, they wouldn't buy me one. So I was stuck playing mediocre Amiga games but I guess they were good enough. Amiga was one of the first decent multitasking operating systems that also fared particularly well with multimedia, but it had crap for memory management. Of course this meant that buggy programs would lock up the entire system. This happened a lot, as I would frequently pull crappy freeware games off the local BBS with my trusty 9600 baud modem. And they would crash, and I would have to restart. No big deal, right?

Well eventually Commodore went bankrupt for reasons I will not go into here, and so following the course of technology we bought a nice new Pentium with Windows 3.0. And by god it was fucking terrible. Program Manager was a shitty shell, and the UI didn't do anything. File management was restricted to this stupid dual-paned app that worked exactly the same as a version that was already available for DOS, except the DOS version was 10 times faster (and Norton Commander was still better than both of them anyway). Same thing goes for WritePad or whatever it was called in Win 3.0, DOS edit was exactly the same but 10 times faster. During that whole Win 3.0 era I stayed in DOS completely, hell I even learned how to use batch files. Mostly playing Wolf 3D and Doom of course.

But then Windows 95 came along... And advanced UI programming started catching on, and these complicated programs would become popular, programs that you just couldn't do on a console. So we upgraded to Windows 95 and it sucked pretty much all the same. Explorer was a better shell than Program Manager but it was buggy as hell and would crash over and over again. MS Word was becoming really popular around this time but after trying it for a short while I stayed as far away from it as I could. I can't remember the amount of times that I'd lost my work because it fucking crashed on me. And plus Microsoft had started trying to push DirectX around this time, because they wanted people to stop using the old DOS interrupts and use their crappy new Win32 shit. What? Svgalib can draw on the console and doesn't have assloads of problems with driver bullshit? Oh fuck, I forgot that Microsoft really does not care about anything other than milking people for money. Anyway, of course DirectX sucked (and it continued to suck until version 8, which is recently being used more often because it took them 6 goddamn years to get it right), because if I wanted to play a game I had to suffer through Windows 95 being slow and taking up boatloads of memory. But it was hard to stay away from it when game developers starting adopting it. So even through the Win 95 era I tried to stay out of Windows as much as possible, playing Simcity 2000, Doom, etc on the console.

But around this time the web started becoming popular, so I had to stay in Windows frequently if I wanted to use Netscape. This kind of sucked but the web was a pretty interesting place. Yeah, well shortly after Windows 98 came out and we upgraded, and hooray, it sucked even more than the last two versions. It was terribly slow and crashed even more, probably due to that shitty IE browser which I never used. I don't think I ever used it once when we had Windows 98, Netscape was better anyway. But then Netscape stopped getting updated until Netscape 6 came out which was pretty crappy. But even with all that shit I stayed in DOS a lot of the time playing Doom, because there was pretty much an endless supply of levels coming off ftp.cdrom.com. Uggh, Windows 98 was still terrible though. It crashed at least twice daily and I was really annoyed because it was constantly doing retarded bullshit. I can remember honestly telling somebody that crashing will be a daily part of your activities when you use Windows. I hear people saying "oh that's just an exaggeration it really wasn't that bad" but I can personally vouch for Windows 98 being crappy and giving you too many goddamned BSODs.
From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 1:53:33 AM | Options | #002
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A little while after that we upgraded again to Windows 2000 Pro. Stability was better but it was even slower than previous versions, blecch. Again I continued to use Netscape, but I was really disappointed that my old DOS games would not work. So I dual booted the machine with 98 and 2000 Pro and everything was fine and dandy, aside from the crashing and slowness and wasted memory. I kind of struggled through this era until they released XP. XP really only existed because Win ME sucked worse than Win 98. At the time I actually got a computer of my won that had XP on it, and boy did XP suck worse than anything I had ever used. It was slower and ate up more memory than all the previous versions, at it still had really shitty bugs. It wasn't completely crashing anymore, but my system would randomly glitch up or something would get corrupted without me doing anything and it would take me weeks to fix it hacking away at the registry. At this point I had kind of gotten over DOS because I think I had found ZDoom and that was pretty nice. But when I did get this computer I finally decided to try out IE for the first time, using IE6. And holy fuck, it was even crappier than all the other versions of Windows put together. I ditched VERY shortly after and tried Netscape 7, which was 10 times better. A little while after that I learned that it was based on Mozilla and used that instead. Yeah, but XP still sucked.

Until then I had occasionally heard about the rise of Linux but I never really got a chance to try it. After getting really, really annoyed with XP being gay I finally remembered about Linux and decided to try it out. And of course it was awesome. No more bullshit from Explorer crashing and locking up the whole system, no more forced/proprietary components, no more random screw-ups that I have to blindly guess at to fix because the registry is one big huge fucking mess. If some program is really slow or eating up my memory, I can just remove it. Because of wonderful libraries like SDL I can play a game on the console and in X without even having to recompile. It's really too bad that I didn't get a chance to use it sooner.

Ugh, I can't believe I put up with Windows for all those years. There doesn't seem to be any significant new addition to any new version of Windows, the only things that ever get added are:

1) Bug Fixes
Why are the bugs in there in the fucking first place? And why should I have to pay even more to patch up holes in a shitty product that still only make it slightly less shitty?
2) Useless features/bloat
This includes "shiny buttons" and dancing paperclips. None of that stuff is even included for any reason other than to waste space and system resources, which forces you to upgrade your computer, which, in turn, generates revenue for an OEM company that is paying Microsoft for software licenses. Why can't I remove all that extraneous bullshit? And believe me, there is plenty of "hidden" bloat that makes your software even slower; it's just cleverly included into the normal flow of their programs. What? All 700MB of data on this disk is required for me to run the operating system? Whoops, oh shit, somebody managed to fit the same exact functionality into 50MB (damnsmalllinux.org).
3) Features that other software managed to implement years earlier
Obviously Microsoft cannot even bother to implement ANY new and/or convenient features unless some competing product has them and is becoming dangerously popular in markets that Microsoft is attempting to dominate. An example: X window managers have had virtual desktops for years, but Microsoft has only implemented them very, very recently, and they aren't even included in the explorer shell. You have to download an "add-on". However their desktop switcher is vastly inferior to that of the ones found in X window managers.
4) Random/pointless changes in file formats and APIs
The format for several file types (the most prominent example being MS Word documents) has been changed for absolutely no reason, apparently other than to break compatibility with previous versions to force people to upgrade. There are virtually no features added between versions but yet the document format has changed.
5) Forced inclusion of certain components to push their proprietary technology
Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player being prime examples of this. The WMA and WMV formats do not exist for any other reason than to force people to use them so Microsoft can have full control over yet another market. Because they do not publish specs on these formats, Windows Media Player is the only thing that can possibly touch them (Unless you pay huge licensing fees to include the technology in your software).

I seriously do not believe that Microsoft has made ANY significant innovations in the software industry. They rarely add new features to their software just because they want their users to have a more pleasant experience. I also am very inclined to believe that they hire idiots off the street to program for them, or at least put tremendous amounts of pressure on whoever they do hire and rush the product out as fast as possible. Do people actually test that crap? If they weren't busy developing and obfuscating so many proprietary technologies and useless features, every single operating system that they made would have come out 2 months after the last. Why does ANYONE even use that garbage anyway? This week I had to do some work and was forced to do it on an XP box, and it was slower than my grandmother trying to walk up the stairs. Slower than I had EVER remembered it to be. I wonder what's really in those Windows updates? Windows update takes ridiculously long to "update the system", and not to mention that the "bug fixes" are often upwards of 500K. Are bugs really that huge that they require 500K of data to fix? A buffer overflow is the problem with their software 60% of the time. Those are not hard to fix at all, if anything you would need to change a few bytes here and there. But certainly noy 500K, the patching system they are using must be just as bloated as everything else. How do people put up with this? Have they ever even considered trying Linux (or any other OS alternative, for that matter) at all? Do they realize that, with the right distribution, Linux can be just as easy, if not easier to use than Windows?
From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 1:54:28 AM | Options | #003
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Do not even get me started about the myth that Windows is "easy to use", because it isn't. Yeah yeah, it's easy for some idiot to open up Internet Explorer and check his hotmail account and message a few of his dumbass friends on AIM. The same is true of KDE. But anything beyond that is very vexing for the average noob. Trying to install some new hardware? "What? It's asking me where the drivers are? I don't know where the drivers are. I think they're on this CD, so let me try putting it in. Nope, that didn't work. Hmm, it will let me search the CD. No, that didn't work. I can browse a list of drivers for my device... OK, I'll try that. Wait, what is my device? It doesn't seem to be listed. Oh, here it is. Now I have to restart my computer to finish................................Alright. What?? It's not showing up. ARRGH." And then the tearing out of hair proceeds and whatnot. I have always known it to be a hassle for idiots to get external hardware set up on Windows. It's a giant pain in the ass trying to get them to understand. If anyone tells you Linux is harder than Windows, they are lying (provided you choose an easy distribution of course). Both have the same learning curve up until a certain point when you discover you REALLY want to get the most out of your operating system. And guess what? You are allowed, in fact you are encouraged to do that with Linux. But what about Windows? If you want to do any advanced tweaking, you are out of luck, unless you want to wither spend a lot of time hacking, or spending more money on third party products that "unlock" features in the OS that for whatever retarded reason you aren't allowed to modify by default. Personally I found this very annoying, that I could not do what I wanted just because Bill says I can't. I know some of you may find that hard to understand because you are used to Windows being terribly rigid, but if you were willing to try something different for a while instead of being stubborn jackasses or wimpy pussies who give up for moronic reasons, you would understand. Just because Windows ships with your computer does not mean you have to use it. Currently you have a choice, something you might not have for very much longer if Bill continues to get his way. His proprietary technology threatens computing in general and if it continues to dominate, the price of it will keep rising and Bill will grow richer while all the little sheep use those technologies without even thinking about how their money is being thrown down the toilet.

However there is a small group of people in the business/networking world who realize that Windows is terrible. Who are they? The Unix crowd, of course. Unix (and Unix-like operating systems including Linux and BSD) has been used for 40 years and has been considered top-of-the-line for networked situations. Microsoft is trying to take over this market as well by releasing (inferior) products that are supposed to fare well in networks, but there are still many out there who know that Unix cannot be beat. BSD and Linux are just as good, if not better than anything Microsoft can produce, and are completely devoid of all licensing costs. Meanwhile, due to viruses and endless security problems the cost of administrating Windows networks is rising every day, so much that it's getting ridiculous. Why do people put up with that bullshit in the first place? Not only do they need to page huge fees for licensing on the Windows software, they end up spending even more money on third-party antivirus software and system repair utilities. It is trivial why this software that provides basic functionality is not included in Windows in the first place. Why not give people things they are actually going to use instead of stupid dancing paperclips? Even if they did include an antivirus scanner with Windows, why would you need one? Why do they ship software with so many bugs in it that the viruses are allowed to propagate at all? And sometimes the virus isn't even exploiting anything, it's just a program that wreaks havoc in the system because people are running as superuser accounts when they shouldn't be. Every version of Unix out there usually tells you that running as root all the time is a serious security hazard. Why don't Windows users know this?

The problem probably traces back to the fact that DOS, and in turn Windows were originally designed as single-user operating systems. Then with the boom of the internet and the world wide web, suddenly you had a bunch of people with their computers open to everyone because Windows was not programmed with decent security in mind. Windows NT was created for use in networking because apparently people wanted to use Windows 95 as network workstations, but they had some problems connecting to unix systems (which were the de-facto standard for networking at the time). Windows NT was 10 times as stable as regular Windows but it was made in such a way that you couldn't use it efficiently as anything other than in a network situation, so none of the home users bought it, but it became popular in the office because people wanted to use Windows 95 at work for whatever retarded reason, and Windows NT could keep them on the network. Microsoft has now ditched the regular Windows line of operating systems in favor of NT-based systems because they finally realized that NT was more stable and more secure than standard Windows (although not by much). Which is why XP is based on the NT kernel. So now you have everyone at home is using XP Home, which somehow they managed to fudge up and wreck the security. Because a lot of older Windows programs were made with only single-user systems in mind, you have a problem. These programs will run into trouble with permissions and such when trying to install them on multi-user systems (yes, having an admin account and a base user account counts as multi-user) and will generally be a pain to get working properly when you just aren't running as the admin will full permissions. Obviously anyone who wants to avoid this hassle will just run as the admin all the time, which in turn poses a serious security risk (this is somewhat more of a problem on XP Home because I do not think you get adequate access to modifying the permissions -- probably because permissions on NT are incredibly confusing and more complicated than they need to be). Meanwhile, Unix has always had network security and multi-user systems in mind and will fare infintely better with security on any computer that is even just connected to the internet. To put it bluntly, for Windows to evolve into a decent OS for networking will take a very long time. Why do people (besides Bill Gates) even try to act like it is the first place? I suspect because they have not been informed of the superiority of Unix.

Nobody should have to put up with Microsoft's bullshit. Believe it or not this rant actually has a purpose. People should not be conned into paying ridiculous sums of money for shitty software just because everyone else is using it and they are unaware of the high-quality alternatives available. While I am not currently wasting any money on Microsoft products, if people continue to do so I might be forced to in the future if Microsoft manages to eliminate all the competition. So go now, stop wasting time and money on Microsoft products and use Linux or anything else. Every one of you is a human being just like me and you deserve better than to get hosed over and over again by Bill Gates.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 4:47:47 AM | Options | #004
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*stands up and fucking claps*

bravo.
From: Animal Chin Posted: 5/16/2004 4:53:31 AM | Options | #005
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Jay's life; an epic tale of a boy and his computers
From: XSO Posted: 5/16/2004 5:39:58 AM | Options | X | #006
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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: XSO Posted: 5/16/2004 5:40:36 AM | Options | #007
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Jay's going to have a fit when Windows Palladium comes out.
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From: Ai Amano Posted: 5/16/2004 6:27:56 AM | Options | #008
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The moral of the story:

Jay is a better hacker than we can ever hope to be, and Windows is ass.
From: Extreme Posted: 5/16/2004 6:55:43 AM | Options | #009
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Jay will like this bash.org quote:

<Steve> Even "The Magic 8 Ball" is smart, and knows Microsoft Sucks. It says "Outlook Not Good."
From: Ant P Posted: 5/16/2004 8:04:59 AM | Options | #010
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The XP Home CD is the first and last one I'm buying.
Waste of 90.
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Engrish Plz.
From: duckduckduck Posted: 5/16/2004 10:26:09 AM | Options | #011
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You grew up with an Amiga?! Lucky bastard, I was stuck with the old 64/128. I was jealous if the Amigans - the screenshots on the back of the games I'd buy always had "Amiga graphics shown" written in tiny print. Heh, I was prepetually dissapointed.

Pretty good rant, I actually prefer BSD over *nix for security purposes and would recommend that for anyone wanting to learn an OS for that purpose.

The only counterpoint to all this is that it is still 1000 times better to know M$'s products inside and out than the other less-popular OSes. It's just a sad reality of the business world. Working in my position I use all but I'd have never gotten any of the career opportunities I've had without being a Windoze guru. And by guru I mean ninja. The only way this will change is if *nix becomes a big faceless Microsoft clone so that their OS can start being distributed mainstream, preloaded on retail business PCs.
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This is... odd, but I'll put it in just to see what happens ~ Jay
From: Anonymous Posted: 5/16/2004 10:33:46 AM | Options | #012
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I grew up with Nintendo's...

I had a Nintendo back in '90, and SNES in 94', and 64 in '98... I didn't get my first computer until '99, and it had Windows ME...

I remember in '95 playing Mah Jongg on my aunt's computer.

Buuuuut nobody cares about me, because I'm nothing compared to Jay.

@_@
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Nobody knows the right time to talk, and the right time to listen.
From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 10:50:23 AM | Options | #013
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Yes, BSD is known for having better security that Linux, however the difference between them in security is fairly slim. Or at least compared to windows. And plus, Linux seems to have less problems with drivers... I'd say it's not a bad compromise, having to update the kernel a little more often.

And Linux is slowly becoming shipped with OEM computers; I believe Lindow--err, Linspire has a few deals with OEMs. But eventually if people start using it more, OEMs will realize that they can sell their computers for slightly less because they don't have to pay licensing fees on the operating system, and still make a good, if not better profit. Even if that happened with just one somewhat popular computer manufacturer, it would grow very quickly. But yes, unfortunately if you want to make it anywhere in the business world you need to know Windows. It is pretty stupid to limit your audience (even if they do use crappy software)... Unfortunately I have noticed a lot of software companies don't understand that and release their software only for Windows.

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(18:36:25) Anthoneyy: u liek my epsnsin
From: duckduckduck Posted: 5/16/2004 11:07:29 AM | Options | #014
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Well, the very best way to go will always be to know all. Our database servers are all HP-UX and our email servers are Sun Solaris boxes. However all the state workers and public machines remain windoze boxes.

We were actually going to experiment with exposing the public to Redhat on a few of the older public machines. Heh - who knows? Maybe we'll get a few converts there?
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This is... odd, but I'll put it in just to see what happens ~ Jay
From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 11:18:46 AM | Options | #015
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Just tell them that your computers have higher standards.

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(18:36:25) Anthoneyy: u liek my epsnsin
From: tranmerefan Posted: 5/16/2004 1:52:06 PM | Options | #016
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The XP Home CD is the first and last one I'm buying.
Waste of 90.


You should do what everyone else does, and pirate it.

My Mate has saved around 500 using pirated software, and makes a fair bit selling it on in school to really thick people who think it's a good bargain.
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"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." - Oscar Wilde.
From: Ant P Posted: 5/16/2004 2:34:53 PM | Options | #017
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I've only ever paid 90 for PC software.
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specialops.aquatakat.net
Engrish Plz.
From: Joe Posted: 5/16/2004 4:21:09 PM | Options | #018
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Jay will save us all.
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 4:28:45 PM | Options | #019
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THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
From: duckduckduck Posted: 5/16/2004 4:46:28 PM | Options | #020
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You lazy ass mods, I demand you give Jay rupees for this rant immediately! Two rupees. And a napkin.
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This is... odd, but I'll put it in just to see what happens ~ Jay
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:18:15 PM | Options | #021
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I wan't remember what I had when I was a youngen. i remember being 2-3, and my aunt had a computer, it was a small screen, by my memory, about 6-7 inches big, and it was built into the case, and the keyboard might have been built into it too, and you could carry it around. quick, what the hell type of computer is that?

I didn't have a computer for the longest time. 2-3 was my aunt's computer, may have been a commondor now I think about it. Then my grandpa got his first color computer in 89. Windows 2.0 baby. I was 5, and he hooked that bitch up to the internet. I remember it being prodegy, and god damn, it was a lot of fun. it wasn't the porn filled, shit fest the internet is now. In fact, all i had access was some games, and shit like that. All the other stuff I didn't care about, i just wanted the games. The most fun one was a maze game.

My first programing was back in qbasic. I borrowed a book from the library on computer programing when I was 6-7, and I just typed in what I saw in the book, and can't even remember what the hell I did. I know I made songs once, since i know how to play mary had a little lamb, but that was about that.

After my grandpa updated that computer, I got his, fun. I was about 10 at the time. It was a piece of shit with 512k of Ram, and I can't remember how many mghz the processor was, but it was shit. pretty much below 10. The hard drive itself was only 100 megs. Actully, that was quite a lot for that day I think. Anyway, it sucked, and had a 1200 baud modem. wow, that was shit. So after two years of that shit, I decided to buy a 14.4k modem. Cost me $65, and I don't think it was that worth it, but installing it opened up a new window for me. Before that, i actully had a monochrome computer, that I bought for $20 at a business liquidation. I smashed it after I got my grandpa's computer, so that was the first time I saw the insides of a computer, but my grandpa's was a lot more complex, including aci slots for cards. So I installed that modem when I was 12, which back then was a big deal. You _never_ touched a computer unless you knew what you were doing. So that started me on installing random shit for people. It cost about $100 to install a card back then, so people would give me $5, and I'd install whatever cards they had, and I thought I was top notch shit. Too bad I didn't know I could charge 20 times that for fucking around in their $3000 systems.

Anyway, that computer lasted me until about 1997, and that is when I got rid of it. No use anymore, the world of computers was evovling too fast, the communication age was in full swing, and I pretty much didn't have a computer for 2 years. x-mas of 1999, I got my first brand new computer. Compaq piece of shit. 500 mhz, 9 gigz or so, 64 megs of ram. State of the Art. too bad compaq and windows 98 sucks balls. I never knew that everyone else's computer was crashing too. I thought it was just the compaq's fault, not windows. So I beat the hell out of that computer. The best/worse moment was I was writting a huge paper in sophmore/junior year, and the thing crashes after i had wrote a 6 page paper, and didn't save it. I smashed my keybaord, and me and my dad got in a fight. Ha ha, good times.

But at this time, i was pretty messed up on drugs, going to lot of parties, and having a nice social life, so computeres were nothing to me, nothing like my childhood playing games, it was sex, drugs and rock n roll. Well, after I got a serious girlfriend, and had to settle down, I started to get back into coding. I got into a programming class at school, andgot back into visual basic. Visual basic was so fun. I started to make all kinds of shit. games, apps, it was a blast. everything my mind could think of. Then I met up with GFH in late 2001. Nothing big, but would change everything.

I was still getting bigger into offline programing, learning a few languages, including c/c++. Then right before gfr3 went down, i got interested in online programming, so i bought a websites, to work with shit, and to offically get my own domain. So that started the entire html/php shit, which is where I still sit now.

Anyway, recently I've been building computers, built 3 in the last 2 weeks, and redid my laptop. And I do enjoy building computer too, but I think I am going to stick with programming. Btw, if anyone cares, got a gameboy in 89, and my NES in 88. owned. Still have both, originals. And my video game career is a different story.
From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 5:30:25 PM | Options | #022
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Can we have that in plain English please?

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(18:36:25) Anthoneyy: u liek my epsnsin
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:33:17 PM | Options | #023
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Me get stoned, me no know them puteres.
From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 5:34:33 PM | Options | #024
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tool
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:35:48 PM | Options | #025
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Monkey wrench!
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Arson.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:36:17 PM | Options | #026
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*wrentches monkey*
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:37:03 PM | Options | #027
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*goes to ob*

*dies of lag cancer*
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Arson.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:37:56 PM | Options | #028
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I had to get some fresh air here. I'll blame the lag on Jay. Always do when something goes wrong.
From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 5:39:57 PM | Options | #029
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LAF is the official lazy beaner there, not me.
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(18:36:25) Anthoneyy: u liek my epsnsin
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:40:49 PM | Options | #030
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I fired LAF.
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:41:05 PM | Options | #031
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LAF was demoted.
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Arson.
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:42:10 PM | Options | #032
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Jeez, what are all the mods you fired, obo?
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Arson.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:42:40 PM | Options | #033
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I fire all of them. More fun that way. I don't like any of the mods. Cept gabs, i love gabs.
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:43:02 PM | Options | #034
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Indead.
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Arson.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:43:17 PM | Options | #035
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I've had a sex dream about gabs.
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:43:48 PM | Options | #036
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I've had a sex dream about you, honey.
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Arson.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:44:12 PM | Options | #037
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I've heard that a few times, n-ot sure how to take it.
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:44:53 PM | Options | #038
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Up the ass, please.
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Arson.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:45:38 PM | Options | #039
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Never in the ass.
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:46:23 PM | Options | #040
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Nasal sex, please.
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Arson.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:50:16 PM | Options | #041
5: Provisional
Online
Never tried that.
From: obo Posted: 5/16/2004 5:54:44 PM | Options | #042
5: Provisional
Online
H ah, speed is back.
From: Magus Machine Posted: 5/16/2004 5:55:01 PM | Options | #043
28: Moderator
Offline
Bye, activity at at0.
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Arson.
From: Jay Posted: 5/16/2004 5:55:46 PM | Options | #044
9: Legend
Online
Neagrows
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(18:36:25) Anthoneyy: u liek my epsnsin
From: dcm Posted: 5/16/2004 6:41:27 PM | Options | #045
6: New User
Offline
Jay, which Linux distro would you recommend for someone starting out with Linux?
From: Numenor Posted: 5/16/2004 6:50:14 PM | Options | #046
29: Elite Moderator
Online
I'll stick with Mac OSX... which is of course is a Unix system. Unix/Linux >>>>> the shit Microsoft puts out.

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Mac OSX is like Windows XP... only good.
Mozilla... Get it.