Life, the Universe, and Everything
hey LUE, shoot me some ideas for improving the mod system
X Launcher | Posted 7/24/2009 11:13:14 PM | message detail |
Whoops, didn't finish my thought. It would be lovely if moderation and contesting were different branches entirely. Like, you'd have a staff for adjudicating the moderation queue, and a separate (smaller) staff for responding to appeals. Ideally, these two staffs would not share the same administrative board. Separation of powers, and all that. And on the subject of consistency, I present a post from one of your own, exhibit A: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/XLauncher/TheUltimateDefense.jpg On a message board where discussing a legal substance, salvia, got modded for "being too close to illegal activities," I'm supposed to believe that it's always been A-OK to mention pirating sites so long as you put a disclaimer saying not to link to it? And ironically, a few posts after that, another poster did exactly that, listing a whole bunch of sites you can download torrents from, something we never did before that wonderful piece of revisionist history. --- Only thing he'll have time to plan is his funeral. - lastjustice on Spiderman vs. Batman http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/XLauncher/9596_obama.jpg |
slimshady975 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:13:24 PM | message detail |
so update: 1) stop forwarding moderations back to the original mod. a system of checks and balances breaks down when the original person has the final word. 2) contest suspensions 3) show which mod deleted the post to avoid mod harassment (discussed above) 4) end favoritism (discussed above) 5) allow users (maybe of a certain user level) to appeal to lead while having an upheld be lead in their histories point 5 could effectively resolve point 1 while maintaining the forwarding system. --- http://i24.tinypic.com/3442nfa.jpg | http://i23.tinypic.com/2cgoim1.jpg | http://i33.tinypic.com/2vuj12s.jpg |
necrobahamut | Posted 7/24/2009 11:14:04 PM | message detail |
no more against the rules but we don't enforce it crap --- http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/715/1185679517806ok7.jpg |
HCG Drakir | Posted 7/24/2009 11:14:25 PM | message detail |
Maybe each mod should have a "mod-name" that isn't their username but is put on all their moderations and contests. That way users can tell if they are getting repeatedly modded by the same mod or said mod always gives trolling replies or whatever and there is some sort of accountability. --- Official Most Frantic User |
Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:14:49 PM | message detail |
It would be lovely if moderation and contesting were different branches entirely. Like, you'd have a staff for adjudicating the moderation queue, and a separate (smaller) staff for responding to appeals. Ideally, these two staffs would not share the same administrative board. Separation of powers, and all that. I'm just lurking at this point, but I wanted to come and say... damn... you radical you. :P *applauds* --- Superhero... and this is my power: to not let them take me. NOT ME! |
slimshady975 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:15:32 PM | message detail |
From: HCG Drakir | #054 this is a good idea. mod IDs that aren't attached to their usernames --- http://i24.tinypic.com/3442nfa.jpg | http://i23.tinypic.com/2cgoim1.jpg | http://i33.tinypic.com/2vuj12s.jpg |
hatrickpatrick | Posted 7/24/2009 11:15:33 PM | message detail |
it *is* a fact that someone walking around with a large moderation history IS moderated more severely than someone with a clean history. That is how it has been since I started. I don't believe it's in the current version of the terms of use [it really should be] but it is preached to moderates to moderate this way [by admins and guidelines ... lol mod only information]. The closest thing in the terms of use is that repeated violations can get you banned. I understand that, I'm just talking about the sort of personal *****ing you sometimes get from mods. If the contesting user didn't turn the contest into a personal attack, there's no reason for the mod to reply with one. And my example was a bit weak, I'm talking about genuine personal attacks. Like the rants I used to get from Raptor for example. If they had been posted on the boards they would absolutely 100% have been modded as trolling or flaming - and of course I couldn't reply in the same manner because it always said that if you (a user) was abusive in a contest you'd be blocked from using it. --- GameFAQs isn't going to be merged in with GameSpot or any other site. We're not going to strip out the soul of the site. ~CjayC ~~~THE LONE BOARDWALKER~~~ |
HylianWhiteLitening | Posted 7/24/2009 11:15:46 PM | message detail |
Stop with the cookie cutter replies: "You're lucky you didn't get a worse punishment" and the like. Have an internal system in the event that a message or topic was deleted for the wrong reason, make it so that it doesn't get reposted and then redeleted, but rather swap "offensive" with "trolling" or what have you. The others can better defin what being more consistent means. It's just a cluster**** of information I'm too tired to post right now without it looking like textual diarrhea. --- http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1650/animatedbyakuyabankaigi.gif Not changing this line till I move to Empire, LA |
Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:15:52 PM | message detail |
From: HCG Drakir | #054 I like this idea too. A nice bridge between detecting mod harassment while allowing veiled "anonymity". --- To never die, and to conquer all - that is winning. |
CrashBFan | Posted 7/24/2009 11:16:01 PM | message detail |
No complaints. But it's not like you guys do such a great job that you deserve any compliments, either |
sumaznguy129 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:16:29 PM | message detail |
it *is* a fact that someone walking around with a large moderation history IS moderated more severely than someone with a clean history. That is how it has been since I started. I don't believe it's in the current version of the terms of use [it really should be] but it is preached to moderates to moderate this way [by admins and guidelines ... lol mod only information]. The closest thing in the terms of use is that repeated violations can get you banned. So if a person gets moderated, and tries to post a more tou safe version, they will get moderated again and even more harshly? I can understand if the person just reposts a similar content post. --- http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9947/sohot2.jpg http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6200/sohotz.jpg |
SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 11:17:17 PM | message detail |
hatrick, if you can give me any example of a modID where that has happened in the past two months, please shoot it to me. We have had *numerous* topics telling mods to stop being jerks in contest replies - ESPECIALLY when the user doesn't instigate anything. The biggest offender of doing that is no longer a mod, by the way. |
Gul Cratt | Posted 7/24/2009 11:17:39 PM | message detail |
I think the whole contest-privileges-revoked thing should expire after 3 or 4 years, or something. It seems silly to punish a one-time mistake indefinitely, and leaving it for 3 or 4 years would still provide ample incentive against contest-abuse and shouldn't drastically increase the amount of contests you'd have to deal with. And I'd bet you'd find that offenders would be a lot more conservative with contests after 3 or 4 years of no-privileges. Obviously I have a personal reason for this. What do you think? --- R.I.P. Darrent Williams 1982-2007 http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2905/250pxgynaecology1822zy3.jpg |
Ghost4800 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:18:12 PM | message detail |
stop modding me so much plz --- "... that first post was like a flash-bang grenade packed with concentrated stupid." -Coolhand *907 Hustler* |
Phoenixmon2 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:18:14 PM | message detail |
Stop forbidding fun --- Yvonne Strahovski. 'Nuff said. http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/CrimsonPenguin/2i8u1wh.jpg |
BlitzBoy | Posted 7/24/2009 11:19:06 PM | message detail |
It would be lovely if moderation and contesting were different branches entirely. Like, you'd have a staff for adjudicating the moderation queue, and a separate (smaller) staff for responding to appeals. Ideally, these two staffs would not share the same administrative board. Separation of powers, and all that. The biggest problem with this is that there are few mods who do anything regularly, so you'd be making a huge dent in what the mods who are quite active can actually do in terms of clearing backlog. --- ~BB Somewhere far beyond your reality. |
slimshady975 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:19:07 PM | message detail |
however, the mod ID idea sounds better than it actually is for several reasons, notably: 1) this would effectively end mod's signing their contests to avoid revealing their IDs 2) IDs would probably be discovered eventually 3) if IDs are ever changed, and invariably mods will beg admins to do so, the system breaks down --- http://i24.tinypic.com/3442nfa.jpg | http://i23.tinypic.com/2cgoim1.jpg | http://i33.tinypic.com/2vuj12s.jpg |
ayame95 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:20:01 PM | message detail |
My main complaint is with certain users who troll effectively by walking the line very carefully (posting just this side of moddable stuff), while deliberately enticing other posters into making minor infractions, then marking them. So you've got one person getting away with making topic after topic with the sole purpose of annoying others...and then a bunch of people getting modded for complaining about them trolling, telling them to knock it off and getting modded for flaming, quoting other people's posts but not putting a simple "^This" or something so it's disruptive, etc. I know most other posters are going to be against the idea of giving the mods more powers, but if some of them (maybe the lead or veteran mods) had a little more leeway to deal with these kind of posters, I think it would make a huge difference. --- I'm not really from outerspace. http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1310/denwajizopx4.jpg |
BlitzBoy | Posted 7/24/2009 11:20:53 PM | message detail |
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
BlitzBoy | Posted 7/24/2009 11:21:01 PM | message detail |
I think the whole contest-privileges-revoked thing should expire after 3 or 4 years, or something. It seems silly to punish a one-time mistake indefinitely, and leaving it for 3 or 4 years would still provide ample incentive against contest-abuse and shouldn't drastically increase the amount of contests you'd have to deal with. And I'd bet you'd find that offenders would be a lot more conservative with contests after 3 or 4 years of no-privileges. Obviously I have a personal reason for this. What do you think? I have no problem with really abusive contests being stuck with abuse permanently, but there are some contests, particularly older ones when the system was a lot more strict, that really shouldn't be held against the user forever IMO. Like yours. --- ~BB Somewhere far beyond your reality. |
SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 11:21:12 PM | message detail |
Gul Cratt | Posted 7/24/2009 10:17:39 PM | message detail I think the whole contest-privileges-revoked thing should expire after 3 or 4 years, or something. It seems silly to punish a one-time mistake indefinitely, and leaving it for 3 or 4 years would still provide ample incentive against contest-abuse and shouldn't drastically increase the amount of contests you'd have to deal with. And I'd bet you'd find that offenders would be a lot more conservative with contests after 3 or 4 years of no-privileges. I couldn't agree more. There are a lot of really lame contest abuses from years ago for really petty things. I know some mods like to forward to admin any appeal that calls the mod an idiot, or something maybe 3KL worthy or so. I use the button so sparingly it's not funny. I will forward what would be equivalent to an account suicide, nothing less. Even if the user spams the f-word in the appeal six hundred times, I just uphold it. I'm also going to point out many of these suggestions are being addressed by myself on the "mod side" of the issue. But there are some new ideas which I'll work into my epic wall of text. |
Dan6811 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:21:24 PM | message detail |
Two suggestions, the first of which you probably have no control over, and the second of which I'm not sure falls within modding. 1) When modding for flaming or offensive, please train the mods, or at least give a little outline or something, that details implications and connotative meanings. It annoys me greatly when a post is wholly misconstrued and marked merely because a single word or phrase is used that someone can point to to skew what's being said, or allows someone else to say "but you IMPLIED blah blah." I realize a problem of intent arises here (that is, what the poster originally intended and what he says he intended after being called out on it), as well as individual differences in regards to judging situations, but sometimes it seems absurd how much is read into the most minor of comments. 2) Hitler. Please, please, please take off the "Comparing anyone to Hitler shows that not only have you absolutely no grasp of history, but it's also a flame, and a TOS violation." That post warning is just outdated and unnecessary for several reasons. It can still have that "The message you entered contains one or more words that are usually associated with violations of the Message Board terms of service" bit, but the first sentence I quoted is just ignorant, illogical, and insulting. --- "The acquisition of knowledge raises more men with no feet than when one has questions pertaining to shoes." |
Kyoober | Posted 7/24/2009 11:21:44 PM | message detail |
You should be able to dispute all moderations. No limit. --- http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/6150/l7eedfbf238e24cdf90e331rj3.jpg http://card.mygamercard.net/gel/black/Kyoober.png |
LiVeWiRe01 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:21:45 PM | message detail |
is the users whole history taken into account for modding? like if he had no mods on his account at the moment, but had been purged/warned previously a few times (months/years ago), is that history still taken into account? because i was told by a mod that my prior history had to do with a mod, but i had a clean slate at that point. and i dont think thats fair to judge based on that --- Wandering poster This post is 99% certain to be virus free |
jay2090 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:21:48 PM | message detail |
Keep track of all the little rules that get changed. Like right now, saying "cool story" is moddable. Put that in MBA or somewhere. --- wft | PSN: cro04 http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8810/farfetchdra7.png | GT: jay042 |
Fighter Fei | Posted 7/24/2009 11:22:00 PM | message detail |
From: SineNomine | #031 Then allow Leads to do so, and not lower ranking mods? --- http://card.mygamercard.net/nxe/FighterFei.png Shield Bearer The Molceros strikes again! -- Ex-White Knight of LUE |
MikeGnz | Posted 7/24/2009 11:22:54 PM | message detail |
From: LiVeWiRe01 | #074 No...unless it was one of those "contest privileges removed" moderations, they all purge from your record after a month or two. --- http://i41.tinypic.com/2qdqs6p.jpg | http://i41.tinypic.com/29djrtf.jpg | http://i42.tinypic.com/29c44zk.jpg |
Xeno14 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:23:57 PM | message detail |
get mods who can actually read. several times i'll dispute a moderation and the first response to the dispute will add words to a post which aren't there or in a pic(i won't repost) said something that was clearly false. Since you essentially get 2 shots to get an overturn(everyone knows contesting to admin is a waste after the whole Guitar hero fiasco), wasting one of them because a mod sees something that isn't there is rather annoying --- http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/Xeno14/14/1245969747627.jpg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLfj3U_iPXE |
LiVeWiRe01 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:25:09 PM | message detail |
From: MikeGnz | #077 o_O then i dont get why the mod said that to me --- Wandering poster This post is 99% certain to be virus free |
warutrid | Posted 7/24/2009 11:25:21 PM | message detail |
take away the ability to mark posts from anyone who's ever had a moderation about anything. --- You can't fight in here, this is the War Room! http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c313/Doitlater/warutrid/HeWhoMustNotBeNamed.png |
BlitzBoy | Posted 7/24/2009 11:26:55 PM | message detail |
o_O then i dont get why the mod said that to me *sigh* That is an example of a mod not reading your contest and making a cookie cutter response. Sorry. :-/ --- ~BB Somewhere far beyond your reality. |
Kyoober | Posted 7/24/2009 11:27:33 PM | message detail |
LUE shouldn't get modded as often as it does. --- http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/6150/l7eedfbf238e24cdf90e331rj3.jpg http://card.mygamercard.net/gel/black/Kyoober.png |
diabloman | Posted 7/24/2009 11:28:30 PM | message detail |
tag for later --- Just tell Peppy you couldn't do a barrel roll because you were getting stoned-Sonicz237 |
HylianWhiteLitening | Posted 7/24/2009 11:28:31 PM | message detail |
The biggest problem with this is that there are few mods who do anything regularly, so you'd be making a huge dent in what the mods who are quite active can actually do in terms of clearing backlog. So ask for some volunteers to jump to the contesting side and open up applications for new "judges" to handle the contests. --- http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1650/animatedbyakuyabankaigi.gif Not changing this line till I move to Empire, LA |
Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:28:42 PM | message detail |
From: jay2090 | #075 All memes are susceptible to moderation. It just depends on which ones catch on with the userbase here, and CSB has spread like wildfire across these boards. Aside from just the meme quality of it, the origin story shows that it's also a method of Trolling. --- The accommodations in this place suck and it smells like rotting corpse. | That's probably the rotting corpse. |
LiVeWiRe01 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:28:58 PM | message detail |
From: BlitzBoy | #081 eh, what i said was offensive, and im not supposed to complain about severity of mods in the contest. i just thought it was weird i was warned on LUE for that with no prior history noooo biggie. (i secretly blame you for everything now becaues you responded) --- Wandering poster This post is 99% certain to be virus free |
Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:29:41 PM | message detail |
From: Kyoober | #082 LUE gets moderated less often than you think, compared to the rest of the boards. --- What... what the hell was that? | Recompense. |
SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 11:31:40 PM | message detail |
I was going to say something about that moderation, but after seeing the mods involved I'll just pound my head into my desk more while screaming in the futility of the system. |
jay2090 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:32:11 PM | message detail |
From: Tidus9554 | #085 unfortunately, not all of us have the time to sit on meme watch and see when something becomes moddable. "Meme" is not an intrinsic quality. Just because this is the example, say my good friend thelimsh posts "cool story, bro" in a topic. I think that's funny. Two days later, I post the same thing. Or, take it the other way. Saying something is "grissing stupid" is technically a meme and yet no one will ever get modded for that. Same as if I say "man, I'm so leet at counterstrike." You can't say "memes" are moddable because that's not a knowable thing. If something is a meme, tell us. --- wft | PSN: cro04 http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8810/farfetchdra7.png | GT: jay042 |
SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 11:32:47 PM | message detail |
Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:29:41 PM | message detail From: Kyoober | #082 LUE shouldn't get modded as often as it does. LUE gets moderated less often than you think, compared to the rest of the boards. Yeah, I did this yesterday actually. LUE had 34 marks in the queue, RI 59, POTD 91, and CE 261. |
X Launcher | Posted 7/24/2009 11:32:54 PM | message detail |
From: BlitzBoy | #066 Well I wouldn't propose taking the numbers for the contest staff from the current pool of moderators anyway. The idea is to sever the connection between moderation and contesting, so the cleaner the new staff's hand of the meat packing process, the better. Admittedly, it would be difficult to find people with a qualified understanding of the ToS to adjudicate contests that don't have the experience of moderation under their belt, but I am just daydreaming here. That aside, it sounds like you're saying the majority of moderators don't have consistent day to day experience for the days they do choose to address the queue. That's...disturbing. --- Only thing he'll have time to plan is his funeral. - lastjustice on Spiderman vs. Batman http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/XLauncher/9596_obama.jpg |
Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:33:56 PM | message detail |
Saying something is "grissing stupid" is technically a meme and yet no one will ever get modded for that. Wouldn't calling something or someone "grissing stupid" be trolling/flaming anyway? =/ You can't say "memes" are moddable because that's not a knowable thing. If something is a meme, tell us. That sounds fair. --- I wanna go to the crappy town where I'm a hero! |
CobraX V2 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:34:53 PM | message detail |
Out of curiosity, what was the reason for the removal of the ability to contest the severity of moderations? There was a while back that I got warned with a clean slate for making a snide remark about something that Zhuge Liang (iirc) said and I was hit with a warning. ToS violation I guess, but the punishment handed down was quite ridiculous considering I had a clean slate and it was such a minor shot it wasn't funny. Any particular reason why that was removed? --- Come on children, mind the gap http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/8886/colorsslot39qk2.png |
Rolo | Posted 7/24/2009 11:35:02 PM | message detail |
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator] |
Will VIIII | Posted 7/24/2009 11:35:31 PM | message detail |
If something suddenly is moddable it would be nice if we got a system notification informing the userbase that X fad is moddable or discussion on X is now moddable and such since the TOS never seems to change. --- http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4051/babies.gif |
Will VIIII | Posted 7/24/2009 11:36:08 PM | message detail |
From: jay2090 | #075 This is a good example of my point. If saying that is suddenly moddable send out a system notice so that we all have fair warning beforehand. --- http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4051/babies.gif |
Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:37:50 PM | message detail |
From: Will VIIII | #096 Still sounds good, but I would like to know what other mods think about this. It just suddenly struck me that a lot of the time, we just make the decision behind closed doors and then no honest effort is made to inform the userbase about it. --- Odd... doesn't exist until it cracks apart. | What's that? | Time. |
Xboxlover2 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:38:08 PM | message detail |
Out of curiosity, what was the reason for the removal of the ability to contest the severity of moderations? There was a while back that I got warned with a clean slate for making a snide remark about something that Zhuge Liang (iirc) said and I was hit with a warning. ToS violation I guess, but the punishment handed down was quite ridiculous considering I had a clean slate and it was such a minor shot it wasn't funny. Any particular reason why that was removed? Got changed when the dispute system was overhauled back in 2005, presumably to cut down on the number of disputes. Not a change I'm a fan of, especially since mods can still forward back things that are obviously harsh. --- Xboxlover2<50>(36)-New York City's #1 GameFAQs User It's like I'm having a barbecue in my pants! |
SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 11:38:08 PM | message detail |
From: BlitzBoy | #066 The biggest problem with this is that there are few mods who do anything regularly, so you'd be making a huge dent in what the mods who are quite active can actually do in terms of clearing backlog. Okay, I'm going to basically spill the beans on this one. About three years ago it was not uncommon to see 4000+ marks in the queue at any given time. 250+ contests/100+ appeals sitting in the queue was normal. The numbers are down quite abit now, but there's still often 50+ contests in the queue - and many of the "hard" ones sit around for a few days until someone sucks it up. The lead appeals is a similar story. At times it can hover pretty high - then we bash out as many as we can, dropping down to maybe 3 or 4 really hard appeals. Then we bang heads and try to knock them out, but this is why you occasionally see an appeal sit for a week or more. The good news is, if you have an appeal sit that long, it *generally* gets overturned. |
Xeno14 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:39:47 PM | message detail |
From: Tidus9554 | #092 1. that should be dependent on the circumstances, If i put my hand in a waffle iron and someone said that was grissing stupid, i don't think that is really trolling 2. Memes change so often and cover a wide range of things. for example, philosoraptor, advice dog and all other things http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/Xeno14/14/1241720866296.gif but i guess Milhouse is safe --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLfj3U_iPXE http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/Xeno14/X14/1245103916870.gif |
