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hey LUE, shoot me some ideas for improving the mod system

SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 10:41:57 PM | message detail
I would like an user-side list of suggestions regarding the MODERATION/DISPUTE system before submitting a formal request. Obviously they need to be feasible requests, not suggestions to remove all rules and all moderators or other off the wall ideas. Thanks!
UtarEmpire | Posted 7/24/2009 10:42:17 PM | message detail
here's one
competency
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ff8squall | Posted 7/24/2009 10:43:00 PM | message detail
tag for when I come up with something decent.
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DragonLordX3000 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:43:04 PM | message detail
Consistency.
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sumaznguy129 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:43:25 PM | message detail
consistency.
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bob the fish | Posted 7/24/2009 10:44:05 PM | message detail
Bring back metamod.

Also consistency.
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JubeiKibagami | Posted 7/24/2009 10:44:11 PM | message detail
I think you should remove all rules and all moderators and other off the wall ideas.

Also, let me contest again <.<

Also, maybe have a mature team of moderators to track the moderators.
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Rat Guy | Posted 7/24/2009 10:44:49 PM | message detail
Robots.
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bangvang | Posted 7/24/2009 10:45:08 PM | message detail
CONTESTING SUSPENSIONS.
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Inmate 922335 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:45:14 PM | message detail
This won't end well.

Chances are, it will get modded.
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Duskmon | Posted 7/24/2009 10:46:04 PM | message detail
Metamod that separates between game and social boards, maybe, because the two have different moderation dynamics.
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Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:47:45 PM | message detail
Contesting suspensions is a good one to start with.

Also, zombie robots.

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SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 10:47:58 PM | message detail
clarify consistency please. are we talking mod 1 says it's a violation and mod 2 says it's not. Or user 1 gets 3KL for something and user 2 gets 10KL for it [even though user 2 may have a dozen other moderations].
Darth Lenny | Posted 7/24/2009 10:48:52 PM | message detail
Make it so that if a moderation gets overturned, it can't be modded again except by a mod of higher rank.
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Fighter Fei | Posted 7/24/2009 10:49:23 PM | message detail
came in to say consistency.

If you give better guidelines for mods as far as what kind of moderation falls into what territory, users will be less likely to ***** when user A gets warned for something user B got an NKL for.
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slimshady975 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:49:37 PM | message detail
1) stop forwarding moderations back to the original mod. a system of checks and balances breaks down when the original person has the final word.
2) contest suspensions
3) show which mod deleted the post to avoid mod harassment
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Duskmon | Posted 7/24/2009 10:49:59 PM | message detail
From: Tidus9554 | Posted: 7/24/2009 10:47:45 PM | #012
Contesting suspensions is a good one to start with.

this is also true

suspensions are like the one thing that most deserve the ability to contest
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SSJBinky | Posted 7/24/2009 10:50:20 PM | message detail
How does the dispute system work again? Isn't it the same mod, a lead mod, and finally an admin? You may want to remove the first appeal and replace it with a different mod, if only to avoid a bias of some sort.
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Liwi | Posted 7/24/2009 10:50:42 PM | message detail
Nothing wrong with the mod system. It's the mods that need to improve imo.

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communist28 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:50:51 PM | message detail
I assumed consistency meant of enforcement
IE right now the joke seems to be that tsundere was always moddable
It has like an ex post facto kind of feel to selective enforcement
but I generally play by the rules so I dont really know
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Kapoop | Posted 7/24/2009 10:51:25 PM | message detail
Tag for later use.

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slimshady975 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:51:46 PM | message detail

From: Tidus9554 | #011
Contesting suspensions is a good one to start with.

Also, zombie robots.


don't you know that sailor bacon is omniscient?
Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:52:03 PM | message detail

From: SSJBinky | #018
How does the dispute system work again? Isn't it the same mod, a lead mod, and finally an admin? You may want to remove the first appeal and replace it with a different mod, if only to avoid a bias of some sort.


A second mod always looks at a moderation before deciding to either uphold or forward it to the original mod. If it's upheld, next dispute goes to lead level. If it forwards to the original mod, original mod makes decision to uphold or forward; after that, your next dispute goes to the leads.

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Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:52:40 PM | message detail
Sorry, I meant to say, the original mod either upholds or overturns.

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BlitzBoy | Posted 7/24/2009 10:52:44 PM | message detail
How does the dispute system work again? Isn't it the same mod, a lead mod, and finally an admin? You may want to remove the first appeal and replace it with a different mod, if only to avoid a bias of some sort.

The first level goes to a different a mod, however this mod cannot overturn a moderation. He can only forward the mod back to the mod who deleted it with a note about whatever and the original mod makes the final decision.
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slimshady975 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:52:58 PM | message detail
also, stop giving certain users preferential treatment. for example, if i post something that a mod may assume is trolling to a certain user, i get suspended. yet if i'm blatantly trolled by several users, they seldom get modded at all.




end the favoritism.
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Flamey Wolf Dude | Posted 7/24/2009 10:53:01 PM | message detail
Enough activist modding. If the ToS doesn't say something is a violation of the rules don't go around claiming that things are "too close" to being against the ToS and must be modded, or trying to stretch it to cover "offenses" that aren't explicitly stated as being against the rules.
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CobraX V2 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:53:24 PM | message detail
Stop forwarding moderations back to the original mod if a second disagrees. If you don't want to overturn there immediately, send it to a third, impartial, mod.

Make reposted topics unable to be remodded.

Ban "You're lucky, I would have given you *harsher punishment*" from dispute responses, please. It's become the new "Fair, next."
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Space Medafighter X | Posted 7/24/2009 10:54:17 PM | message detail
I concur the motion for consistency

Also on every stupid contest reply with this following link

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/revall/Icons/modvsii0.gif
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Tidus9554 | Posted 7/24/2009 10:56:34 PM | message detail
Explain what you guys mean by consistency.

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SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 10:56:57 PM | message detail
Make reposted topics unable to be remodded.

The only problem with this is at the lead level we often have users whining that they were fairly moderated - just for the wrong reason. They *demand* to be moderated for the correct reason. As a result we overturn/repost/remoderate for the appropriate reason. I will admit though, we have had problems in the past where certain low level mods would remod non-violations that a lead or admin had overturned. As far as I know they are all no longer mods. While what you say probably does still happen, I'm confident that it is no longer *intentional*
hatrickpatrick | Posted 7/24/2009 10:59:13 PM | message detail
One very simple request.

Get a message detail button inside the contest system. Flaming, trolling, and much more seriously, wasting contest replies by not actually addressing the points raised in the contest, should be punishable offenses and users should be able to mark them just as they would mark a trolling or flaming message.

Also, "upheld by original mod" shouldn't be allowed. Obviously the original mod isn't going to overturn, it needs to be always a different one to the original.

But my main point is the trolling. I'm sick of getting replies like "k.", it just makes you feel like mods really don't give a rat's ass about actually making the system fairer.
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the ssjman | Posted 7/24/2009 10:59:48 PM | message detail
Now I have hardly been modded, so I'm not 100% in the know about how moderations work, but from what I hear, something useful would be to change the "oh yeah its in the rules but it's only being enforced now" policy. List out and clarify what things are banned, and not just all of sudden go "oh wait thats against the TOS *deletes*" and then a week later post up the reasonings for why posts with links to youtube are suddenly disappearing.

Ditto on the "too close to <TOS breaking thing here> b7" thing, though I don't know how often that gets legitimately used by the mods.
Son of TMOG | Posted 7/24/2009 10:59:49 PM | message detail
Mod accountability would be a good one. Instead of letting the mods be anonymous when replying to contests, show who the mod was.
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Flexible Bullet | Posted 7/24/2009 11:00:11 PM | message detail
I'd like for trolling moderations to be limited to actual trolling, rather than being the catch-all for when the mod doesn't have a legitimate reason to get rid of a post. If you guys are going to do something like that at least be a bit more honest and use Moderator Discretion.
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Son of TMOG | Posted 7/24/2009 11:00:42 PM | message detail
Oh, and I second... third... uh, fourth... whatever... the whole deal with reposted topics/posts not being moddable anymore. If the mods determined that they were in error to mod it in the first place, why should the same thing be modded again?
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hatrickpatrick | Posted 7/24/2009 11:01:10 PM | message detail
One other thing: If something was not a violation, it should be reposted. Period. There's no conceivable reason for saying "this wasn't a violation but we're not giving you your topic back". The only justification of this from the mod team has ever been "it may not have been a violation but it could get out of hand". If it gets out of hand, you deal with that when you come to it and mod the users involved. It's ridiculous to delete an entire topic just because one idiot is trying to stir things up in it.
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Son of TMOG | Posted 7/24/2009 11:01:51 PM | message detail
Also, GET THE **** RID OF THAT COPY-PASTE "This is a clear and fragrant violation read the rules" REPLY. Tell the mods to actually EXPLAIN why the post was deleted instead of telling the person asking for clarification "READ MORE RULES"
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BlitzBoy | Posted 7/24/2009 11:02:29 PM | message detail
Also, GET THE **** RID OF THAT COPY-PASTE "This is a clear and fragrant violation read the rules" REPLY. Tell the mods to actually EXPLAIN why the post was deleted instead of telling the person asking for clarification "READ MORE RULES"

That hasn't been around for a year now.
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hatrickpatrick | Posted 7/24/2009 11:04:56 PM | message detail
^ Well have you ever trolled in replies personally? >_>
(Not saying you have, just curious. A lot of mods must do it, or else I'm getting the same ones every time I contest)
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The Frivolous 1 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:06:28 PM | message detail
A more uniform punishment system really. If you do X wrong it should be Z penalty all the time for every user.

And while I've never been modded unfairly IMO and have never contested anything, I don't think the original mod should have anything to do with the contest feature.
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SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 11:06:35 PM | message detail
Also, "upheld by original mod" shouldn't be allowed. Obviously the original mod isn't going to overturn, it needs to be always a different one to the original.

I disagree here for the following reasons, let me know your input to scenarios like this.
a) the topic is gone, the mod seeing the contest has no context to what actually happened and has no choice but to send it to the original mod for a [hopefully truthful] explanation.
b) the post is on a regional board and the users contests in their native language, only one mod on the site speaks that language. Makes it a real pain.

It is appealable to lead of course [in most cases], which I can almost assure you the highest % of moderations are overturned. Some appeals sit for a long time because no one really knows what to do with them - then we combine heads and argue it out if we disagree. Just last night we had five lead mods heatedly discussing a moderation about something, researching it for well over an hour. In the end, it was overturned which led to the quick overturn of numerous other moderations for roughly the same reason.

But my main point is the trolling. I'm sick of getting replies like "k.",
You'll see this alot with admin appeal upholds - or if you make an obvious joke contest. My word of advice, if you didn't lose 10 karma, it's not worth appealing to admin. The overturn ratio is so incredibly low at that level it's not losing your ability to do first and second tier for three months.



I am personally an advocate of the old appeal system [I mod it, the contest comes straight to me]. One thing that bothers me is when I moderate something for a certain reason and the mod who upholds it confuses the issues saying it was modded for something else - and then I or another lead explains why it was *really* modded. The user basically blew an appeal there.

I'm also an advocate of a system where the lead can "uphold" something but *not* lock the user out of appeals for a month. It would be so handy as it comes up a LOT. Ultimately, all of these problems would be fixed if first level contests were taken more seriously and accurately, but unfortunately I have no power to fix the way people handle things, only try to patch the system behind them.
sumaznguy129 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:06:38 PM | message detail
are we talking mod 1 says it's a violation and mod 2 says it's not. Or user 1 gets 3KL for something and user 2 gets 10KL for it [even though user 2 may have a dozen other moderations].

Well both really. Because sometimes when you have moderations in your history, it seems like later moderated posts are moderated much more harshly even if its nowhere near as bad as the previous moderations.
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BlitzBoy | Posted 7/24/2009 11:09:04 PM | message detail
^ Well have you ever trolled in replies personally? >_>
(Not saying you have, just curious. A lot of mods must do it, or else I'm getting the same ones every time I contest)


Depends what you mean by "troll". I try and explain the point that they argue in their contest and the reasoning behind the moderation (I hate it when some mods just explain something without actually reading the contest and touching on specific points the user wanted addressed). However, if the contest is just a hate-filled rant, I'm far less likely to bother being polite and helpful in return. In terms of joke contests, I usually reply to them in kind.
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slimshady975 | Posted 7/24/2009 11:09:08 PM | message detail

From: slimshady975 | #014
show which mod deleted the post to avoid mod harassment


to clarify, there have been several instances where there's strong evidence that a mod is harassing certain users with unfair moderations. almost invariably, the second mod disagrees and then the original mod upholds. there's nothing you can do except appeal to a lead mod, and if you have one upheld post by a lead mod, there's nothing you can do. if it's a 3kl or nkl, it's not worth appealing to a lead due to this restriction.
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hatrickpatrick | Posted 7/24/2009 11:10:46 PM | message detail
^ I'm talking also about the kind of trolling where you attack the user themselves, which used to happen to me very often. "If it was anyone else I'd probably overturn, but you're just always trying to piss everyone off" or whatever (and of course I couldn't appeal because I had the stupid 90 day thing or whatever it was back then)
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SineNomine | Posted 7/24/2009 11:10:47 PM | message detail
it *is* a fact that someone walking around with a large moderation history IS moderated more severely than someone with a clean history. That is how it has been since I started. I don't believe it's in the current version of the terms of use [it really should be] but it is preached to moderates to moderate this way [by admins and guidelines ... lol mod only information]. The closest thing in the terms of use is that repeated violations can get you banned.
X Launcher | Posted 7/24/2009 11:12:02 PM | message detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
MikeGnz | Posted 7/24/2009 11:12:54 PM | message detail
I still remember my BS moderation.

Me: Hey guys is [REC] any good? I've been thinking of getting it.

*3KL, illegal activities*

Me: Wait, what? I wasn't going to pirate it. I was talking about getting it from a store!

Mod: Be more specific next time. *upholds*
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TheOlympicHero | Posted 7/24/2009 11:13:08 PM | message detail
I'm also an advocate of a system where the lead can "uphold" something but *not* lock the user out of appeals for a month. It would be so handy as it comes up a LOT. Ultimately, all of these problems would be fixed if first level contests were taken more seriously and accurately, but unfortunately I have no power to fix the way people handle things, only try to patch the system behind them.

I can throw my support for this. Quite a number of times I've seen the first level contest not be fully explained or just left unclear. When that happens, I see it being automatic they'll appeal to lead and lose privileges just to get an explanation that could have been provided at the first level. Honestly, the cut and paste phrases have to go. Some people are too trigger-happy with them and seem to misinterpret the contest entirely, because they're too focused on getting more contests dealt with as opposed to getting it right the first time.
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