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GameFAQs itself stealing, not the contributors?
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:23:59 AM | Message Detail
This is an issue that I've had for a while, but only now thought to bring it up.

Under here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/contribute/submit_cheat.php

Welcome to the GameFAQs cheat submission form. Using this form, you may submit reader reviews to the site for hosting. Content submitted through this form becomes the property of GameFAQs.

And under here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/help/entry.html?cat=13

Do NOT copy codes or secrets from other online sites or offline sources. While the code or secret itself is not protected by copyright, the presentation of it is. Copying without permission is a violation of copyright law, and is intolerable.

And I've also noted you can no longer pull cheats.

Note: I DO NOT WANT TO REMOVE MY CONTRIBUTIONS.

However it seems a little ironic.

All my cheats I have submitted long before that new cheat submit screen was created, just as I'm sure a lot of other users cheats were submitted before that screen was created. If we can no longer remove them, didn't GameFAQs then steal it?

I can see this arising if people want to leave and take their contributions, and I can see problems arising from it.

Because if the presentation was created by us, and submitted by us, shouldn't we be able to take it down because it's ours, for the same reasons we cannot steal the presentation of a cheat from someone else?

Just something I'd like to share, and hopefully that CJayC or Sailor Bacon will see as well.

The only reason I can see this happening is if people want to leave, or code contributors get pissed if the ad free/premium service only ends up being for FAQers and Reviewers, which, I wouldn't have a problem with.

And for the record, I'm only a prolific code contributor, and won't mind either way if it ends up being for all prolific contributors or just FAQers and Reviews, but some people might if they are code contributors and want to stir up things because they're angry.

AND yes I realize there has been no suggestion that the ad free/premium service wouldn't be for everyone, but like I said, also in the event someone for some reason wants to leave and take everything with them.

Thanks.

~IONO
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From: TripleJumpMB | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:35:16 AM | Message Detail
Codes aren't like FAQs. They aren't a user's opinion or personal property. Therefore, it isn't protected by copyright to a user.
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Completed FAQS: 5|FAQs In the Works: 5
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:37:50 AM | Message Detail
Wanna re-read what I wrote?
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From: tigger93 | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:42:49 AM | Message Detail
He's right. There not your property. Therefore, GameFaqs did not steal them.
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From: kirbix | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:43:43 AM | Message Detail
Your theory doesn't hold up, though- he'd be stealing the codes from either the game designer or the people who make AR, not from you.

You didn't make the code- they did.
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Q!
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:47:12 AM | Message Detail
Perhaps steal is the wrong word, but it got people's attention, didn't it?

Long story short:

People submitted things in their own wording, which they own, and GameFAQs even said there is a copyrighted on the presentation, which is why you can't steal if from someone else. But suddenly GameFAQs owns the codes, including the presentation, which is why you can't remove them. My question is, why not? And what happens if someone wants to.

Note: I DON'T WANT TO REMOVE ANYTHING.
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From: TripleJumpMB | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:49:10 AM | Message Detail
It's like the message boards. By joining, you still have a freedom of speech. But you must give up some of your rights in order to use them. The right to the code is the one lost when you submit it.
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Completed FAQS: 5|FAQs In the Works: 5
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:52:38 AM | Message Detail
Before the contributor system got changed, there was never any wording or telling that, after you submitted cheats, them and the presentations became property of GameFAQs. That was only added after it changed. AND you could remove cheats before, but not anymore.
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From: TripleJumpMB | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:54:56 AM | Message Detail
Whatever, I'm just here for the free cookies.

And they DID say that they get the rights to the code when you submit it. So it's not like you can't say you didn't know. If someone wants to remove it, then they shouldn't have submitted it in the first place.
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Completed FAQS: 5|FAQs In the Works: 5
From: Mensco | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:57:38 AM | Message Detail
I think we need to decide are we talking about codes as in "up up down down left right left right start select" codes or are we talking about glitches, exploits that we see often here on the site.

If it is codes, it shouldn't be your idea since the creators intended for it to be there. If it were glitches/exploits, I would have no clue whatsoever.
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From: kirbix | Posted: 4/12/2006 2:58:24 AM | Message Detail
Way to read his post, TripleMB; that disclaimer wasn't always there.

While you're right in principle, read better- those people who submitted before the disclaimer were not made aware.

HOWEVER, they don't have any standing to complain. Worst they can do is force GameFAQs to reword what they submitted.
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Q!
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:01:55 AM | Message Detail
And they DID say that they get the rights to the code when you submit it. So it's not like you can't say you didn't know. If someone wants to remove it, then they shouldn't have submitted it in the first place.

Re-read, again.

BEFORE THE REVAMP, WHEN CONTRIBUTING CODES IT DID NOT SAY YOU GAVE UP THE OWNERSHIP OF THEM.

ONLY AFTER DID IT SAY THAT. I AM WANTING TO KNOW WHY SUDDENLY ANYTHING SUBMITTED BEFORE THAT SUDDENLY WAS STOLEN.

I'd like someone who was here much longer, who was here before all the contributor changes to help confirm this. All I want to do is toss this up incase something like this ever arises so it can be addressed with a precedent.

I don't want to stir crap up, nor do I personally want anything removed. I'd like someone higher up to forward this, or someone who's been here a lot longer to give their opinion, no offense, instead of someone who seems to only been here after the revamp.
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From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:04:35 AM | Message Detail
Way to read his post, TripleMB; that disclaimer wasn't always there.

kirbix, I <3 you, and you are officially my most favorite GameFAQs user for pointing that out as well as for reading.
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The journey is more important than the end or the start.
From: tigger93 | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:10:57 AM | Message Detail
If you don't want anythign removed, then there is really no reason to be fighting over it. Even before the change, in a way you still "gave up" your rights about the cheat (like they are now).
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[+[__]::]
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:15:11 AM | Message Detail
tigger93, it's the principle of it, as well as giving an answer now should anything ever arise.

Even before the change, in a way you still "gave up" your rights about the cheat (like they are now).

In a way? What way? At no point before did GameFAQs say what you submitted became their property, infact they went to great lengths to say it's your's and that they're just hosting it for you, and any and all contributions could be removed. But suddenly during the change, codes, including their presentations became property of GameFAQs. So what gives?
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From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:16:24 AM | Message Detail
I'm sure if FAQs suddenly had that disclaimer, that anything you submit becomes property of GameFAQs, and suddenly you could no longer remove them, PAST contributions before the sudden disclaimer, you'd be angry too, even if you didn't want to remove it, but just because of the principle of it.
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From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:21:10 AM | Message Detail
As far as I can tell, if someone wanted to make an issue out of it, they could. The presentation of cheats submitted prior to the addition of the "GameFAQs owns your cheats" would definitely belong to the contributor. If GameFAQs hasn't kept track of which cheats they "own" and which they don't, they would pretty much have no choice but to remove any cheats if a contributor wanted them removed.
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From: tigger93 | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:21:14 AM | Message Detail
Never mind, then...
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[+[__]::]
From: kirbix | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:24:02 AM | Message Detail
Like I said, all they can REALLY get done is convincing GameFAQs to rewrite the code so as to claim it as their own.
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Q!
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:24:11 AM | Message Detail
Rock, that was my thinking, but still, just one of those things that'd be nice to have brought up so there can be a word on it, giving a precedent incase crap happens.
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From: TripleJumpMB | Posted: 4/12/2006 3:49:47 AM | Message Detail
Way to read his post, TripleMB; that disclaimer wasn't always there.

kirbix, I <3 you, and you are officially my most favorite GameFAQs user for pointing that out as well as for reading.


Well at least kirbix told me what the heck I was supposed to be reading. I kept re-reading the wrong parts.
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Completed FAQS: 5|FAQs In the Works: 5
From: Tessa 6 | Posted: 4/12/2006 5:13:32 AM | Message Detail
You can't lose something you never, ever owned.

Why did you need a new disclaimer to tell you this?
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From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 5:30:09 AM | Message Detail
You have no idea what you're talking about, and obviously didn't read the topic. As someone else didn't bother reading it, or at least in it's entirety and instead only read certain "parts", and only read certain parts, not the whole thing, then wondered why they didn't get it, repeatedly.

Read then post.
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From: Tessa 6 | Posted: 4/12/2006 5:36:17 AM | Message Detail
I read the whole ****ing thing. I even went back and read it again just now to see if you actually made a valid point.

Yes, the disclaimer is new. It isn't telling you anything you shouldn't have known already. Just because a code is 'LRRLRRLRLR' (to use an example I know off the top of my head), me rewording it and writing 'enter this code on the menu screen to access bonus mode' gives me no sort of copyright or ownership of the material. It's not my material. I didn't make the code up. The game designers did.

Stop making assumptions about what we all did and didn't read, and either figure out what your point is, or shut up.
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~Karpah~ What do girls do during sex, anyways. They just lay there and moan a lot!
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 5:45:41 AM | Message Detail
From GameFAQs itself:

Do NOT copy codes or secrets from other online sites or offline sources. While the code or secret itself is not protected by copyright, the presentation of it is. Copying without permission is a violation of copyright law, and is intolerable.

Sounds like the presentation is copyrighted.

You:

You can't lose something you never, ever owned.

Why did you need a new disclaimer to tell you this?


Hmm...

Yes, the disclaimer is new.

My point, and that disclaimer is basically saying GameFAQs owns the code and the way it's presented.

It isn't telling you anything you shouldn't have known already. Just because a code is 'LRRLRRLRLR' (to use an example I know off the top of my head), me rewording it and writing 'enter this code on the menu screen to access bonus mode' gives me no sort of copyright or ownership of the material. It's not my material. I didn't make the code up. The game designers did.

Yeah, but people make the presentations, and according to GameFAQs, those are copyrighted. So what suddenly gives GameFAQs the right to in effect steal the presentations and call them their own?

So why is it wrong to steal the presentations?
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From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 5:50:26 AM | Message Detail
Look, summing it up:

GameFAQs says the presentations are copyrighted, so don't steal them.

GameFAQs then claims all codes and presentations as their own.

Seems like there's something wrong with that.

Personally, I just want it addressed, or best case scenario, change it, and allow the removal of codes in the contributor section.
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The journey is more important than the end or the start.
From: Mauron | Posted: 4/12/2006 6:09:36 AM | Message Detail
kirbix, I <3 you, and you are officially my most favorite GameFAQs user

;_;

I'd like to know the answer to this myself. IONO is making a lot of sense here.
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From: stahlbaum | Posted: 4/12/2006 6:30:40 AM | Message Detail
Think of codes as something that is public domain. They aren't presentations like a walkthrough or FAQ is.

Codes are also comparable to statisitics in an RGP.

Lets say a monster has 6HP and is worth 2EXP and 3GP

You can't really make a case for ownership on those stats, they are just stats. Codes are just codes. Like statistics, no one owns them and everyone has a right to include them on whatever website they want.

This is really apples and oranges.
From: LtCmdData | Posted: 4/12/2006 6:34:32 AM | Message Detail
They aren't presentations like a walkthrough or FAQ is.



Except with things like Secrets and Glitches they are most certainly a unique presentation.


I see where IONO is coming from. Maybe if some of you took the time to look at the over all picture and not just jump on him.....
From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 6:38:03 AM | Message Detail
Thank you.

Exactly my point.

I've quoted what presumably CJayC said, and if not what GameFAQs itself says.

The cheats aren't copyrighted, but the presentations are.

GameFAQs has since then taken ownership of it all completely, presentations included.

If the same were done to FAQs, you'd all be in an uproar.

If you suddenly had a box that popped up saying, all FAQs submitted were property of GameFAQs, then suddenly you couldn't remove your old ones you submitted BEFORE the new box, you'd be pissed. Even if you didn't want it removed, you'd be pissed at the principle of it.

Copyrighted material, no matter how long or short is copyrighted material, and my question is why suddenly has GameFAQs taken hold of code contributor's presentations.
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The journey is more important than the end or the start.
From: CJayC | Posted: 4/12/2006 7:43:39 AM | Message Detail
To be honest, I don't recall whether the notice was on there or not that long ago. But, if a cheat was submitted before mid-2003, was never changed in the massive code re-work in the summer of 2003, and actually could be considered original work (a particularly worded glitch or secret), then we're down to a very small number of potential claimants.

Assuming such a cheat would be worth re-posting, it could either be re-worded and anonymized, or simply deleted to allow someone else to re-submit it in their own words.

Of course, in the past three years, I don't remember that actually happening.

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From: dacium | Posted: 4/12/2006 9:28:39 AM | Message Detail
Now stop wasting Cjay's time so he can get onto that contribution back log :D
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From: IONO | Posted: 4/12/2006 9:37:02 AM | Message Detail
Thanks and feel free to now ignore my feedback ticket!

^_^

It just got to me because of the wording, I felt like I was robbed in a way, you know? But it's all good, more curiosity than anything.

Thanks.

Closing in 20 if I'm still up, or in the morning.
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